Update: Reuters and PTI report that the 6UP game has been suspended, despite there being no formal complaint, taking into account the Sports Ministes views. IPL Governing Council member Rajeev Shukla has not specified for how long the game will be suspended.
Frankly, we would have preferred it if this issue had been taken up in court, and a precedence be set for other such initiatives. With the game being pulled, the ambiguity remains.
Whether or not this is gambling or mathematically predictable, of whether the government should have the right to tell us which games to play were the focus of a rather interesting to-and fro yesterday on Twitter between Kushan Mitra (Business Today), Mahesh Murthy (Seedfund/Pinstorm), Rajeev Mantri (Navam Capital), Sumant Srivatsan (Microsoft) and me. Nothing conclusive, though.
Original Story (May 12, 1247 hrs): Trouble is brewing for the SMS based 6UP game from the Board of Control for Cricket in India, reports Cricinfo, ever since the Sports Minister MS Gill said that it is similar to betting and gambling; the reason – users are paying money to make ball by ball predictions of how many runs have been scored, in the hope of winning cash prizes for a correct prediction. 6UP is powered by iPlayUP, an Australian company, according to Mint.
Skill vs Luck = Gaming vs Gambling?
As Abhimanyu Radhakrishnan rightly pointed out on Twitter, the ability to predict the outcome of one delivery – leave alone six deliveries – is low. However, according to Mint there is some skill involved – you may have inputs of the nature of the wicket, the situation of the game, the bowler and the batsman.
The question, really, is of whether this is more a game of skill, or a game of chance. Since users are paying for each prediction they make, via SMS, is it akin to buying a lottery ticket? You may go to a racetrack having researched all the horses in the race, their record and health history, but does that make putting money on the outcome of the race just a game? In our opinion, determining the runs scored off a particular ball involves more luck than skill.
What of Reverse Auctions?
In that context, what about the reverse auction games, including those on TV: If users are being asked to pay Rs. 5-15 via SMS to predict the lowest unique price for a particular product – where is the skill involved in that? It’s all guess work, and the determinate factors in reverse auctions are even fewer than those in case of 6UP or horse racing.
Why This Is Important
It’s a little surprising that the Sports Ministry has picked up this issue of gaming vs gambling, while the Telecom Ministry and the regulator TRAI have been silent. If this does go to the courts, then the outcome will clearly set a precedence for similar “games” via SMS: a verdict in favour of 6UP will be a watershed event for the mobile business.
Related: Do check out our coverage of IPLs Digital Rights
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15 Comments until now.
Prediction games are generally presented as games of skill, as it does take some knowledge of the domain to make accurate predictions. In cricket for example, one does need to know the pitch, weather, quality of opposition, fitness levels of players, confidence/mental strength of a team, form of particular players, statistics etc, before you can make a call on a particular outcome on questions pertaining to scores of a team or player, wickets to be taken, possibility of a win etc. But predicting 110W400 for example has no scientific or analytical basis. No single cricket expert/player/commentator can get even one over right in a full day's play. It is pure lottery and 6Up will be better off getting a license from Nagaland or Mizoram to run this game.
I completely disagree with the allegations that 6UP is betting or gambling.. i mean talk about the most impossible thing to happen.. Unless and until you understand the game of cricket you cannot be even close to predicting the score for the next over…
For being able to do so, you need to consider many factors like the bowler, batsman, pitch, weather conditions etc.. unless you have been following the game closely its almost impossible for one to send the run per over prediction right… Its seems like pure fun and an interactive games to bring all the cricket fans closer… Like I read in one of the leading mainline dailies today- It takes balls to play this game!!
6UP to me seems like a freaking intersting game… I agree with Neha above how can someone think that its even close to betting or gambling… One it is played live and two it is next to impossible to bet on each over….Also the cost is just Rs 5… in a bet or gamble the stake increases,… here its fixed at Rs 5….
I have played this game…….and i would say – Skill does matter…It depends how good your knowledge is about cricket…………It requires a predominant skill. Also, it cant be betting as nobody knows the pool (The money involved) and number of people playing the game.
in my point of view its game of skills and not at all game of chance, you have to understand the strategy of the game, for that one needs to have good knowledge of cricket and the onground conditions increase the accuracy of their predictions.
Shanaya and Neha (assuming you're not the same person):
With reference to gambling – since the amount paid (and the amount is irrelevant – can be 50p or Rs. 5) is fixed, it's more akin to a lottery than gambling.
The issue is that *even if* you are following the game closely, taking into considerations all the factors, it is almost impossible to guess the runs scored in case of a ball, and even more improbable to guess 6 in a row.
Would suggest you read flips comment.
Thanks Shanaya….
Nikhil, yeah the probability of guessing all 6 runs in a row correctly is minute but its not impossible.. the probability is still there..right?? And how can you say it's lottery? Lottery is a game of pure chance and in this you need skill to predict.. I am a cricket fan and i am pretty sure I will be able to predict much closer to the actual runs than my sister who doesn't even know the C of cricket….
agree nikhil thats why they are positioning themselve as a game of predominant skill and not pure skill.
Pure skill can be when you actually go down to the ground and play the game yourself….there is an element of chance in every game i guess….
Re. to lottery and similar games simply put are games of pure chance – the buyer has no ability to affect their chances for success. Nothing they do as a player (no matter how they select their numbers, etc) helps their chances. (Chances of winning lotteries will be not more than 1 in hundreds of million)
Also 5 Rs. is alomost what we pay to other Mobile VAS products (Rs.3-6) e.g. score etc…which comes free with this game …i saw it on the wap site of theirs..
lets see how it does…i hope service will be good..more critical in mind rather than debating about betting yes or no
Did you guys know :
The BCCI had, prior to the start of the tournament, refused to pay the $1.2m fees asked by the anti-corruption unit of the ICC, and the second edition of the IPL is not under the surveillance of the game's governing body.
Picked from:
http://a2zofipl.blogspot.com/2009/05/another-inno...
y just 6up and reverse auctions there r upteen no of such tv pgms on air late night which r straight fwd illegal betting. eg they show photograph of akshay kumar and ask u 3 options to guess who the star is. obviously 100% can and on success u get a ticket from which a random no is selected which essentially is a lottery on the msisdn no and nothing else.
then there r the other late night adult sex chat voice chat lines. they are also all blatantly illegal.
"No single cricket expert/player/commentator can get even one over right in a full day's play". Well, not entirely true, I think. If I consistenly predict a maiden for EVERY over for a couple of matches, I think there's a fair chance
Nikhil,
Is there even a debate here? Whether 6UP is skill or luck is immaterial in front of rule makers who cling on to age old notions of morality. We should allow adults to do what they please!
And as someone who has given a shot at running a event derivatives game in India (and worked with a commodity exchange in trying to introduce weather derivatives in India) – the rules are extremely fluid and open to interpretation (such as the nature of a game of skill vs. a game of luck).
We should just legalize betting and get over with it! That would actually make the VAS players happy. :)
If skill is needed to pick 6 numbers in between 1 and 6 and then match it to an outcome that is not in control of the player… isnt that what playwin lotteries is all about? For too long have mobile operators, broadcasters and VAS companies played with the laws as regards skill and chance.
Instead lets just fix the laws once and for all. If there is a game that has chance in it then set some laws in place so that they can happen. However, how do we protect that these games dont become lotteries and our kids start playing them.
so long as you admit it is a game of chance, i think u solve nikhils dilemna here! u can save the bit on the trashy anarchy thoughts on more relevant webpages. call out for wisdom id say.
6UP is a game of predominate skill.
Unlike games of chance where the participant has no role in their chances for success – in other words, no matter how they play, they cannot influence their probability for success.
With 6UP, the participant has a major role in their success at the game. And winning is based on predominant skill.